466: Cynthia Thurlow on What Makes Fasting Odd for Girls

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Katie: Hello, and welcome to the “Wellness Mama” podcast. I’m Katie from wellnessmama.com and wellnesse.com. That’s Wellnesse with an E on the tip. And in this episode, we poke deep nearly about intermittent fasting for females and what makes females particularly uncommon by potential of fasting. I’m here with Cynthia Thurlow, who is the CEO and founder of the Day after day Wellness Venture. She’s also a nurse practitioner and a globally acknowledged educated by potential of intermittent fasting and dietary health. If truth be told, she has a TED talk on intermittent fasting as a transformative methodology that has been watched over 8 million times. So in this one, we poke after all, after all particular on the variations between fasting for men and females and how to navigate that to optimize it without stressing out your body, some after all vital causes to discontinue snacking, even supposing you happen to’re no longer gonna come by into fasting, the importance of hydration and electrolytes the general time, but especially in the center of fasting, and the reason our bodies and our liver, especially, need a crash from meals in most cases. We poke deep on a good deal of the science and he or she provides some after all particular advice that is de facto vital if you happen to fast or time-restricted eat or beget regarded as it. So, without additional ado, let’s soar in and be half of Cynthia. Cynthia, welcome.

Cynthia: Thanks. I’ve after all been taking a inspect forward to our dialog.

Katie: Me too. And thank you for being here. This matter is so vital. I judge there’s so powerful recordsdata accessible about fasting, and factual love the massive majority of medical research, a good deal of the research accomplished on fasting is accomplished on men. And so, then we discontinuance up with a good deal of recordsdata that’s considerably unclear or contradictory by potential of females and fasting, every thing from females have to by no methodology fast under any instances ever, to females doing a good deal of various kinds of fasts. And I belief it used to be after all vital to roughly carve by way of about a of that misconception, and delve into what the science in point of fact says about females and fasting. So, to birth up off, roughly give us a top level thought about what makes fasting various and uncommon for females.

Cynthia: Yeah, it’s an unlimited question, and a terribly vital one. And I love to regularly present that females are no longer mini-men, and so we can’t beget the identical guidelines. Though, I will disclose that females that are aloof getting their menstrual cycle beget to fast in any other case than females that are menopausal. So, no longer that I’d ever analysis a menopausal lady to a man, but given the truth they don’t beget a menstrual cycle every month, they in general can enter into fasting without as many roughly restrictions or concerns. But no doubt, for females that are aloof getting their menstrual cycle, I’d disclose youthful females, under the age of 35, I no doubt are inclined to be a bit of bit more cautious, conscientious, and present to them that the first three weeks of their menstrual cycle from the time that they birth bleeding till they’re about five to seven days out from their subsequent menstrual cycle, they in general beget a good deal of flexibility. And so, after all last attuned to, you realize, their energy levels, their sleep patterns. I lift out love to evaluate the menstrual cycle as a barometer for whether or no longer or no longer their body perceives that here is too powerful stress. And obviously, our bodies, when we’re aloof at peak fertility years, are after all attuned to this very aloof steadiness between progesterone and estrogen, and the thought of is our body in the best deliver so that you would possibly perhaps conceive a younger particular person, lift a younger particular person to the tip of a being pregnant.

And so, oftentimes, if a girl, as an illustration, is highly lean, aloof at these peak childbearing years, I will caution them about doing each day fasts. I will assist them to no longer fast the five to seven days previous their menstrual cycle. And for females that are a bit of bit older, you realize, getting nearer to being a minute bit more broken-down, I’d disclose north of 35 and 40, the put they’re in their perimenopause years, the five to seven years previous menopause, here is de facto when taking care of themselves… And here is the sandwich generation. We’ve got kids, we potentially beget folks who are getting older, we would also very effectively be at a level in our job the put we beget elevated requires. And so, after all guaranteeing we’re getting excessive-quality sleep, after all making sure that our macros, the protein, corpulent, and carbohydrates we’re ingesting, are after all dialed in, managing our stress. In addition they are able to also safely fast, but it have to be accomplished, you realize, very strategically…

All yet again, I’d also disclose to that community that, are attempting to take into accout of that time previous their menstrual cycle, and no longer over-fasting. I judge that’s a general roughly misconception is that females are, you realize, after all attracted to fasting due to they’re attempting to commerce their body composition. And I regularly disclose too powerful of any one part is no longer priceless, so that you’re attempting to be very mindful, and no doubt very attuned to what your body is sharing with you about how fasting impacts the general various issues that we’re doing in our daily life.

Katie: That makes sense. Okay, so that you talked about the usage of the cycle as a barometer, which I enjoy that. I’ve regularly acknowledged it’s huge, as females, that we even beget this, due to we can be taught so powerful about our health on a each day and weekly and month-to-month foundation. But what would be perchance about a of these signs linked to the cycle that a girl isn’t responding effectively to whatever fasting she’s doing?

Cynthia: Yeah. And so, here is de facto vital. And, you realize, powerful to your level that, you realize, our menstrual cycle is clearly a signal of how effectively our body is managing and mitigating our daily life in traditional. And so, it’s ok if someone says to me, “, I either had a later cycle or my cycle used to be a bit of longer,” for the first, you realize, one or two months they’re doing fasting. So, if someone says, “I’m in my third month, my period’s gone away, and I’m no longer pregnant.” If someone says to me, love, “I’m getting very heavy cycles, here’s a commerce for me,” any most important commerce with their menstrual cycle. Both their cycle is getting too long, too fast, too heavy, it’s gone away entirely, that’s regularly a signal that they’ve to form some changes that will likely be no longer so powerful particular to fasting per se, but it would even be dietary changes that they’ve made as effectively. I’d disclose any lady who has much less energy whereas they’re fasting, their sleep quality is diminished, these are no doubt signs that their body is reminding them that they’ve to form some changes. So, that’s on the general the put I birth up.

After which we roughly re-engineer. It’s love, let’s inspect at every thing we’re doing to strive to resolve what would possibly also very effectively be the impetus for why your cycle has all straight away gotten after all wonky. But I gain most females lift out after all effectively, but, you realize, taking under consideration the truth that if you happen to’re at peak fertility years, and your cycle goes away, and there’s no likelihood you’re pregnant, that also can very effectively be a signal that it is most life like to dial issues in a bit of bit.

Katie: What’s it about that week appropriate sooner than your period begins that makes it no longer supreme for fasting?

Cynthia: Yeah, that’s an unlimited question. I judge that, you realize, when we inspect at what’s occurring in our body and these fluctuations of progesterone, the truth that, you realize, we’re leading up accurate into a time when we are changing into more and more much less insulin aloof, here’s a time when our bodies in point of fact can accommodate a minute bit more calories. No longer a good deal of more. I don’t love to count calories, but I disclose anyplace from 100 to 150 additional calories, that week previous the cycle. And that’s after all accomplished to make sure that that if we beget an egg that has been fertilized after ovulation, that we’re attending to a degree the put our body is able to utilize the next circulation, or if we don’t beget an egg that’s fertilized, on the level of shed the liner of the endometrium. So, I regularly inspect at it as an different to after all beef up the body in various ways. And so, a good deal of it has to bask in out with this commerce in insulin sensitivity, the need for additional macronutrients, again, no longer counting calories but factual being attuned to that.

And the truth that here’s a time when folks, if they’re going to skills PMS, sleep disturbances, and many others., it’s a time when we’re a bit of bit more at distress of additional stressors. And we beget to evaluate intermittent fasting as a hormetic stressor. It is that this very valid steadiness between too powerful and too minute stress in our lives. And that five to seven days, I factual gain that females lift out a good deal of greater. They in general, if they’re more attuned to adding in additional excessive-quality carbohydrates, it’ll mitigate a good deal of the PMS signs that folks skills.

Katie: Obtained it. Okay, so on that indicate, what would be about a of the vital issues to attach in mind for the way females can birth up to fast whereas aloof having a month-to-month cycle? What are the vital issues to know, and how can they deliver out that safely?

Cynthia: Yeah, I’d disclose, you realize, guaranteeing that you’re taking a inspect at fasting very strategically. Within the occasion you’re aloof getting your menstrual cycle, you realize, from the time that you birth up bleeding till, you realize, day, you realize, three weeks in, after all last attuned to how your body feels. I’d disclose initiating with placing off of snacking. , we’re a society that’s largely conditioned to eat and snack at some level of the day. So, the first step is to discontinue snacking. After which the next circulation is de facto to make sure that that your macronutrients…so, have to you’re placing collectively your meals, whether or no longer it’s breakfast, lunch, or dinner, that you’re placing collectively centered on protein, wholesome fats, and so that they also can very effectively be integrated collectively, if you happen to’re having some animal-primarily primarily based entirely protein, and then being very strategic along with your carbohydrates. I’m no longer anti-carb, but I lift out love folks to utilize root vegetables. Within the occasion you tolerate grains, low-glycemic berries, over a good deal of the prepared foods love breads and pastas and, you realize, cookies and cakes and issues love that.

So, after all being diligent about making sure that you assign these macros collectively. Making sure you’ve got heaps of hydration. Here’s oftentimes lost sight of. Hydration with electrolytes is largely serious if you happen to’re going to even hang in mind fasting. And the electrolytes are due to oftentimes, when folks birth up fasting, they’re ceaselessly attuned to the amount of carbohydrates they’re ingesting, and you potentially also can come by some renal lack of sodium in your urine, which is able to…as you roughly burn up these glycogen stores. And so, I regularly disclose that if you happen to’re going to come by to a degree the put you’re pondering fasting, make sure that hydration’s after all vital, sleep, no longer over-exercising. After which after all thinking strategically, love, if you happen to carried out dinner at 6: 00 at night and you eat breakfast at 8: 00 in the morning, you’ve already fasted 14 hours. And for many folks, no longer eating after dinner, no longer snacking all day long, it’s after all an expansive commerce. So, after all giving yourself grace to acknowledge that it would also utilize, you realize, three, four to 6 weeks till you come by to a degree the put you in point of fact feel chuffed, and then slowly opening up that fasting window.

Now, getting attend to females that are at their peak childbearing years, I in point of fact assist them, you realize, you don’t beget to fast on every day foundation. All people knows primarily primarily based entirely on look research that even fasting two days out of the week confers a huge amount of advantages. For the females in perimenopause and menopause, they would possibly even beget more flexibility so that you would possibly perhaps fast each day. And much love every thing else in our lives, too powerful of any one part is no longer priceless. So, I come by folks that can disclose, “Oh, you realize, I’m at a wholesome weight. I are attempting to fast, after all lift out a terribly long fast.” And if you happen to examine on the look recordsdata, if you happen to examine at folks love Ted Naiman, who’s a doctor who talks about the price-profit prognosis have to you inspect at after all long fasts, fasts over 24 to 48 hours, except you would possibly perhaps perhaps even beget a good deal of weight to lose, I’m no longer sure that there’s as powerful utilize pleasure in doing these continually in decision to someone who’s at a wholesome weight. So, after all taking a inspect strategically, being factual with yourself, if you happen to attain you would possibly perhaps perhaps even beget 30 kilos to lose, then in all likelihood leaping off and doing a protracted fast. But initiating with slack and valid, you realize, making these gains, pulling out the snacking, restructuring your macros, is de facto an unlimited first step.

Katie: So, let’s talk a bit of bit more about snacking, due to here’s a part I don’t judge folks hang in mind. And especially by potential of how powerful we in point of fact snack, ceaselessly without even realizing it. Because most folks, I judge, pick that they eat thrice a day once they eat meals. And once they in point of fact studied this, if I’m remembering properly, it used to be 17 times a day that the moderate particular person eats. Because anytime you assign a caloric meals in your mouth, it counts as a caloric occasion, and your body has to handle it. And so, most of us are, love, in point of fact, our livers by no methodology come by a crash. And from my working out, there’s a good deal of of issues that happen have to you even factual utilize a pair hours crash in between meals, to let your liver work by way of that, your digestion commerce. So, trudge us by way of the coolest thing about even factual placing off these additional, you realize, 14 snacks per day.

Cynthia: Yeah, no, and we no doubt noticed the identical resource, due to I enjoy announcing 16 to 17 times a day with sugar-sweetened beverages and meals, which is astonishing. So, every time we eat something, eat meals, our body secretes a hormone, insulin, to again order our blood glucose down. And so, when insulin is up, you’re no longer ready to burn corpulent. And so, we are attempting to preserve our insulin levels low. So, if as an illustration, if you happen to eat 16 times a day, your body is secreting insulin, and it’s potentially staying elevated. And insulin is a corpulent-storage hormone. The more severe is, if you happen to would possibly even beget three meals a day, and you’re no longer drinking sugar-sweetened beverages in between your meals, your blood sugar will upward push in accordance with meals. And no doubt, it’s dependent on the types of foods that you’re eating. Insulin will again order it attend down, but insulin will remain at decrease levels. And when insulin is low, we are ready to, in most instances, tap into the usage of fats as a most important fuel supply to preserve our bodies, you realize, effectively-fueled.

And there are particular kinds of fatty bodies called ketones, one in all which is known as beta-hydroxybutyrate, and here’s an especially brain-loving come by of fuel. It’ll diffuse appropriate across the blood-brain barrier, and it’s after all a certified supply of fuel. So, the longer that you’re fasting, the more likely you’re so that you would possibly perhaps way these ketone bodies to fuel your body, but you first beget to burn by way of, as you talked about, liver glycogen and skeletal muscle glycogen. And the more carbohydrate-dependent someone is, the longer it’s going to utilize to burn by way of these carbs, so that you would possibly perhaps come by to the corpulent storage. So, you’re attempting to come by to a discipline the put you’re after all optimizing your potential… And our bodies return and forth, you’re attempting so that you would possibly perhaps make exercise of carbs and fats as fuel sources, however the potential to poke attend and forth, many folks are mitigated by the truth that we’re overfed.

We’re in a deliver of atmosphere the put we had been overfeeding our bodies for the form of long period of time that they’re no longer atmosphere gracious. They’re no longer metabolically versatile. And so, have to you poke longer sessions in between meals, love, let’s disclose you lift out eight hours, you realize, you eat dinner at night and then you don’t eat again till, you realize, 8 to 10 hours later, you realize, it begins off with factual digestive rest, which is something that I judge many folks after all don’t skills due to they’re feeding their bodies so generally. And so, you’re after all optimized. Other folks will talk about much less bloating, they don’t beget as powerful fuel, they’re ready to beget fashioned bowel actions. Then you development on to, you realize… And the longer you fast, so, let’s disclose you fast 14, 16, 18 hours, then you’re after all tapping into this intrinsic property called autophagy, and this after all cool extinguish and recycling process that goes on in our bodies. It’s after all how our bodies are designed to thrive, but it eliminates diseased and disordered cells, you realize, disordered mitochondria, that are the powerhouses of our cells. It eliminates…it’s regularly affectionately talked about, it’s love placing off the rubbish in our bodies. But if we’re eating all day long, our bodies can’t elope as efficiently and assign away with the toxins, the extinct cells and particles that we no longer need. So it makes our bodies powerful much less atmosphere gracious.

And you birth up to evaluate various issues, love peaks in human development hormone, which is one in all the hormones that’s all for serving to retain lean muscles. , digestive rest will likely be so severely vital in making sure that we’ve got, you realize, greater biophysical markers, blood rigidity, blood sugar, levels of cholesterol, cholesterol panels. So, there’s a good deal of advantages, but it after all begins as merely as digestive rest, giving our bodies an different to digest the meals that we’ve consumed.

And there’s in point of fact something called the mitigating motor complicated that is in our guts. And so, it takes about four or five hours after we eat a meal to…literally, it’s love a sweeping machine motion that goes on in our guts, that roughly pushes particles, cellular particles, parasites, issues we’ve ingested that our body doesn’t prefer. And if you happen to’re eating more generally, you lose out on the potential to your body to after all be ready to intrinsically assign away with pathogens, assign away with issues that our body doesn’t need. So, I regularly love to birth up…you realize, folks regularly come by centered on the advantages of intermittent fasting, they’re attempting to commerce body composition, they’re attempting to shed weight, and I’m love, “Oh, that’s all huge, but there’s so way more to it.” And obviously, the digestive fragment, and the autophagy, and, you realize, peaks in human development hormone, and tapping accurate into a way more atmosphere gracious exercise of fuel with ketone bodies, is one in all many causes that I’m such an expansive proponent of it.

Katie: And I’m so entirely chuffed you historical that time frame “overfed” as effectively, due to I judge a extremely vital distinction here is, you realize, some females had been told, love, fasting goes to damage your body and mess up your hormones, and are so proof in opposition to the hypothesis of fasting. But ceaselessly, when we’re talking more about, love, the time-restricted feeding and eating facet, we’re no longer even talking about what would be technically regarded as fasting. We’re after all factual talking about getting attend to our pure eating windows that we would perchance beget had biologically up till contemporary times with contemporary light and contemporary snack foods at 11 o’clock at night. And so, I judge that’s a extremely vital reframe to attain, love, even supposing you happen to don’t judge you’re ready for what you would possibly perhaps perhaps utilize into consideration, love, suited unsuitable fasting or water fasting, there could be a distinction between that and factual getting attend to fashioned circadian biology, and letting your body, comparable to you acknowledged, beget that pure time to detox.

You furthermore mght talked about autophagy, which I enjoy delving into this, due to all these cleanses and detoxes beget change into so standard. And I feel love we ignore that our body has these pure mechanisms that are designed to bask in out an perfect greater job. And factual love so many components of health, ceaselessly it’s no longer additive, it’s merely getting out of our bask in way. And to me, that’s what we’re talking about with autophagy. So, for females particularly, what is roughly that sweet way for autophagy without, love, tipping the line into too powerful cortisol or pushing that stress response?

Cynthia: Yeah. I judge here is highly bio-particular particular person. And so, here’s a matter I come by requested a lot is, love, “When does this kick in?” And, you realize, autophagy is balanced out with this various organic process called mTOR. And the way that I inspect at it is miles that we’re by no methodology after all out of both entirely. Like, autophagy is roughly regularly in the attend of the scenes, but it after all doesn’t ramp up to the level that we prefer it to be at except we are no longer eating consistently. So, after I hang in mind females, I regularly explain them that even supposing you happen to fast for 12 hours, 13 hours, 14 hours, you’re aloof getting a total bunch advantages, so I judge in most cases folks are attempting to separate hairs. They’re love, “I in point of fact beget to fast for no longer decrease than this many hours, in any other case there’s no autophagy.” And I remind them it’s powerful love the rest, it’s after all last attuned to the put your body is in time and dwelling.

And so, for some folks, they’ll simply fast for 18 hours, many days a week, and so that they feel huge. Other folks are very attuned to their bodies, and so that they’ll disclose, “, there’s one day outing of the week the put I used to be after all, after all hungry, and so I’d very most life like been fasting for 15 hours and I broke my fast,” and I used to be love, “That’s valid. Actually. I pick you lift out that than to undergo by way of, you realize, a entire lot of hours of being depressing.” And for me, I wear a valid glucose music, and a good deal of my patients lift out as effectively. And I’ll disclose to them, love, “If your blood sugar is 64 and you’re after all hungry and you’re getting cool, poke eat. You are no longer going to come by a medal for fasting the longest.” Like, that’s no longer the perspective that we’re attempting to advance attend from. So, I judge from, you realize, if you happen to examine on the research, if you happen to in point of fact delve into it, you realize, 24 hours is real, and it after all drives up, but that’s no longer life like for many folks most days.

So I explain them, you realize, purpose for 16 hours. , you’re going to come by a good deal of advantages there. How’s your sleep? How’s your energy? Did you come by by way of your workout? Are you in point of fact grumpy? Are you cool? , these would possibly also additionally be signs that your body’s attempting to explain you it’s time to crash your fast. , we’re no longer, on the least most of us are no longer out in the barren role foraging for our bask in meals. , we beget the potential to, you realize, either poke to the farmer’s market, poke to the grocery retailer, birth up our fridge, and you potentially also can no doubt, you realize, crash your fast earlier. So, I judge a good deal of what I strive to protest and educate folks to bask in out is to after all remain attuned to their bodies.

Sadly, we’re in a society the put we beget numbed ourselves for thus a few years that we don’t acknowledge suited intrinsic starvation. And I judge for many folks, feeling hungry, love, suited intrinsic starvation, is something that they’re so disconnected from that there’s this era the put they truthfully beget to come by, literally, come by chuffed with that sensation and reminding them that starvation is highly cyclical, and that the longer they fast, meaning the longer they’ve been fasting, they arrive by these counterregulatory hormones that will likely be secreted, that can roughly suppress about a of these starvation cues. Like, I judge for many of us, when we come by up in the morning, we’re no longer hungry. And so, it’s perchance about a hours later that we’ll come by a grumble in our belly and we’re love, “Okay, let’s beget some water, let’s, you realize, come by some espresso, some green tea,” and then poke about our days. And I judge that’s clearly how our bodies are designed to thrive. We’re no longer designed to come by up, you realize, shove in a donut, and then, you realize, come by this enormous insulin spike and blood sugar spike, and then it comes attend down, they arrive by hypoglycemic, and then they’re browsing for, love, the next sugary meals they’ll eat, and so that they birth this vicious cycle at some level of the day.

Katie: Fully. And that belief of learning starvation is so vital. Like, you’re appropriate. I know I… Notably, due to 1 in every of the times you mustn’t be fasting is with in the center of being pregnant and nursing. And I had been pregnant and nursing for 9 years straight. And so, I had roughly no longer realized these pure starvation cues for a extremely long time, due to obviously in that level, that is also very, very vital to fuel your body. And you would possibly perhaps perhaps even beget a younger particular person sitting in your belly, so that you don’t ever after all feel hungry the identical way. And after I started intermittent fasting, I got to be taught what that feeling used to be. And you lift out, comparable to you acknowledged, you come by historical to it. After which it turns accurate into a terribly vital cue.

And I’m after all entirely chuffed you furthermore mght talked about folks being attentive to their bodies, due to, you realize, if you happen to had a terribly tainted night’s sleep and you were up with a younger particular person, and you realize your glucose response goes to be out of whack due to you didn’t sleep effectively, and you’re hungry at 9 in the morning and you’re attempting to eat protein, then completely it is most life like to hearken to your body and lift out that. Notably, you realize, if you happen to’ve got all these daily life components, love kids operating around, and you’re taking care of various folks. I’d enjoy so that you can talk more about what are about a of these daily life components to hearken to if we’re going to fast. Like, what cues have to we be paying consideration to know when fasting is more fit or worse on a given day?

Cynthia: Yeah, I are attempting to acknowledge that you talked about no longer fasting whereas pregnant and breastfeeding, due to here is de facto severely vital. It’s the after all the one time in our lives the put we are nourishing and extending one more human. And I factual see a good deal of misinformation on this particularly, so I’m so grateful that you introduced that up, due to I’m entirely in alignment with that as effectively. But issues that I protest folks to after all take into accout of, if you happen to’re tired, love, if you happen to wake up from drowsing all night long and you come by up and you’re exhausted, it is most life like to remain after all attuned to that. Within the occasion you don’t beget the energy to come by by way of a workout, if you happen to, you realize, the menstrual cycle changes that we roughly alluded to. , no doubt, if your hair is falling out, if you happen to’re noticing that, you realize, you’re cool the general time… And that will likely be factual linked to low blood sugar, it is going to be an underactive thyroid. There are many various issues, but it in general is a signal that something else goes on.

I in general don’t counsel fasting for folks that beget a dysfunction, an active dysfunction relationship with meals, whether or no longer it’s binge eating, anorexia, or bulimia. Clearly, there are no doubt folks that are working on the identical time as with a extremely proficient therapist, and so, that is highly various, but I lift out gain that in most cases it is going to role off these trends. So, folks will disclose, “I’m bingeing on every occasion I crash my fast.” And if it’s no longer factual a once in a whereas part, that also can very effectively be a signal that it’s factual their body is…you realize, we beget this amygdala. And so, the lizard brain overrides our prefrontal cortex, and that’s why their body is literally, love, “Food scarcity. I beget to eat the general issues.” So, after all dialing attend and perchance factual fasting for a shorter period of time.

I hang in mind folks who are underweight. Per chance someone’s lately been in awful health or been in the sanatorium. If someone has, love, a most important medical illness, you realize, I regularly roughly level a finger and disclose, you realize, here’s a time factual to test in along with your healthcare pleasant. I gain that the majority folks, most healthcare providers are very supportive of fasting. But if you happen to’re on continual medications, you’re attempting to beget a dialog, due to if you happen to shed weight, you would possibly perhaps perhaps also certainly, you realize, beget decrease blood rigidity. , you would possibly perhaps perhaps come by dizzy, you would possibly perhaps perhaps…especially with positional changes. , if someone’s diabetic, they also can need an adjustment in their medications. So, you realize, after all having these conversations. And again, I gain that the majority healthcare mavens are very supportive. I don’t judge I’ve, in most instances, I’ve had any components with shared patients having components.

But, you realize, after all interested by factual very traditional issues, dizziness, lightheadedness, especially with positional changes, guaranteeing you’re staying after all effectively hydrated, changes in your menstrual cycle, energy components, awful sleep. That’s one part that I see with many folks, no longer factual females, but also with men. If all straight away, love, you would possibly perhaps perhaps also’t sleep by way of the night, that’s no longer a precise signal. Because each person knows, as you already alluded to, that if you happen to come by decrease than six hours a night of sleep, and it dysregulates your blood sugar, your cortisol, leptin, and ghrelin, you’re no longer going to crave broccoli, you’re going to crave junk, due to your body is purchasing for a compensatory potential to adjust the excessive-quality sleep that your body after all most important. So that’s on the general a initiating level.

Clearly, I’ve seen instances or heard of instances the put patients will poke from, you realize, having effectively-managed stress to feeling love they’re very anxious, very depressed. I regularly present to them that, you realize, intestine health mitigates neurotransmitter production, and so, after all vital to after all dive into the intestine health fragment, if they’re feeling love all without prolong they’ve all this dread and so that they’re no longer ready to after all differentiate the put that’s coming from, that it is going to be changes in their food regimen as effectively. But you no doubt are attempting to examine a bit of bit more deeply at that as effectively.

Katie: Fully. And I’d enjoy to head a bit of deeper on the hydration facet as effectively, due to I know from what I’ve read, a good deal of females are chronically mildly dehydrated to birth up with, and we’ve had this roughly misconception in the medical world for a extremely long time about salt especially, about electrolytes being tainted, and no longer attempting to come by too powerful. So, talk a bit of bit about hydration in traditional, but also why it turns into even more vital when we’re fasting.

Cynthia: Yeah, now, I enjoy this matter. , I worked in cardiology as an NP for 16 years. And so, love, I’m estimable savvy with electrolytes. So, the hydration fragment, completely. By the level we come by thirsty, we’re already dehydrated, and the final public don’t drink sufficient water. If truth be told, I judge the statistic I read used to be that the moderate particular particular person drinks minute or no water at some level of the day. It’s in general caffeinated beverages, which oftentimes will dehydrate us additional, sugar-sweetened beverages and the sugar will dehydrate us additional, or it’s alcohol, you realize, given the last, you realize, 16, 17, 18 months, no doubt with more stress. So, after all specializing in half of your body weight in oz of water a day minimum. , if you happen to’re very most life like doing 20 to birth up with, you realize, slowly enlarge it to 30. The added profit is that have to you add electrolytes, your body will bask in on to a minute bit of more of the water. So you’ll in point of fact retain water, no longer in the way that you’re going to be having a good deal of swelling or edema, but we acknowledge that the majority ceaselessly, when folks are fasting, they’re going to lose serum sodium, so salt by way of their urine.

And no, salt is no longer all tainted. If truth be told, we would beget a total separate dialog on the truth that we need more salt in our lives. And salts and chloride, magnesium, potassium in very particular amounts. Sadly, there’s a good deal of misfortune-mongering about electrolytes, but they’re all for nearly every organic process in our bodies, along with motion doable, membrane potentials, verbal replace between cells, gentle muscle relaxation. And I lift out gain that sodium and chloride are obviously a bit of bit separate, but whilst you happen to would possibly also come by your magnesium levels the put they have to be, potassium nearly regularly would possibly also be at therapeutic levels.

So, discovering a excessive-quality electrolyte substitute, you realize, obviously in the center of a fasted deliver, you like something that’s unsweetened. There are glorious products that are junk-free that are accessible. There are about a manufacturers that I in general will, you realize, refer folks to, that I’ll disclose, “Within the occasion you’re going to beget a Stevia-sweetened electrolyte, you realize, these are a pair manufacturers that are perfect.” You after all prefer it to be minimal ingredients. You don’t are attempting to be ingesting sugar-sweetened beverages whereas fasted. I’m completely a proponent of the truth that there’s something called the cephalic piece insulin response, and that is in accordance with something sweet on our tongue, our body will put collectively itself for meals coming. So, when folks will disclose, “Oh, effectively, Stevia, primarily primarily based entirely on research is, you realize, entirely valid to utilize whereas fasted,” I regularly remind them, love, “I don’t be taught about you, but after I drink something sweet, or my body perceives I’m gonna eat something sweet, I’m reasonably confident that physiologically, my body is preparing itself for meals.”

So, you realize, it’s after all being mindful. , and it doesn’t have to be…you realize, in most cases folks after all are attempting to birth up with something as easy as Himalayan sea salt in their water. No longer so as that it tastes love the ocean, but a pair sprinkles of Himalayan sea salt is a terribly easy system to birth up. You furthermore mght can throw that accurate into a 20 ounce of water, you realize, glass water bottle. I’m an expansive proponent of visual cues. , if folks are struggling to attach in mind to drink, it’s love, ok, you realize, I weigh X kilos, if I need half of of that in oz of water a day, I beget to drink three of these a day, and factual sipping it at some level of the day. It doesn’t have to be, you realize, guzzling all of it straight away. And I gain when folks add electrolytes to their water, no longer very most life like lift out they feel greater cognitively, they sleep greater, they’ve much less complications, they’re ready to, you realize, poke to their gymnasium or whatever roughly exercise they’re doing. It’s very humid in the piece of the nation that I’m in appropriate now, so there’s a good deal of sweating that goes on. I in point of fact beget to remind my kids to drink more water, even supposing they don’t are attempting to, but it’s factual, it’s a precise behavior to come by into.

, in wintertime when the warmth’s on, it’s very dehydrating as effectively. So, after all being cognizant of the quality of salt that you’re utilizing. And processed salt, the salt that’s historical, the iodized salt that’s historical in the processed meals commerce is highly, very various than sea salt. Celtic sea salt, Himalayan sea salt, the types of salts that we’re talking about. And I don’t prefer folks to be skittish of salt. I judge that’s been a terribly shocking misnomer, you realize. Completely, there used to be a good deal of misinformation I didn’t know that I used to be sharing it on the time with my cardiac patients, but I lift out love to remind folks now that we should always not ever be skittish of salt. Salt is designed to no longer very most life like form our meals model greater, but to illuminate our model buds. And if you happen to’re the usage of after all excessive-quality salt, you want minute or no amounts. It’s very, very flavorful.

Katie: Yeah, completely. And I judge one more vital level here, too, when it comes especially to females and fasting that isn’t talked about sufficient, is the hypothesis of refeeding, and being intentional about fueling have to you’re eating, which also, I judge, helps crash that, love, deprivation mindset that a good deal of females beget by potential of meals, but factual making sure to, love, signal your body that you’re no longer in a starvation mode. And the many vital key that, for sure, being to eat sufficient have to you’re eating. So, are you able to roughly trudge by way of about a of the pointers by potential of refeeding? I know you talked about protein already, and I’m a expansive fan of guaranteeing, especially as females, that weren’t getting sufficient protein, since many folks are no longer. I know there’s also a cautious carb factor here as effectively. So, trudge us by way of what we beget to be taught about refeeding.

Cynthia: Yeah. And so, you realize, for each person that’s listening, you realize, have to you crash your fast, I assist each person to bask in out some experimentation. Some folks pick to crash their fast with something love bone broth, you realize, very nourishing, very hydrating, very light. Some folks pick to crash it, if they tolerate dairy, they’re going to bask in out a fleshy-corpulent dairy. Per chance they’ve some nuts or some berries in there. I personally love to crash my fast with eggs. That appears to be a protein that works after all effectively. And it’s vital that when we crash our fast, we don’t crash our fast with a bunch of carbohydrates. I’m no longer anti-carb, I factual love folks to attain the science that, you realize, if you happen to’re going to beget a meal, you’re attempting to make sure that it’s protein and carbs collectively, or you would possibly perhaps perhaps even beget protein and corpulent collectively, but carbs are by no methodology by themselves, due to it’ll mitigate a way more intense insulin response.

So, have to you talk about refeeding, and I judge here is de facto vital, there’s two separate issues. So, refeeding will likely be breaking your fast and then determining the way you’re going to building your meals, and so as that’s obviously vital. I also judge it’s vital to beget a day the put you kick yourself out of ketosis. So, if you happen to’re predominantly the usage of fats as a fuel supply, you’re attempting to be ready the put you’re reminding your body you’re no longer ravenous. And either having a day the put you would possibly perhaps perhaps even beget a 12-hour feeding window…here is once a week that I will on the general lift out this, a 12-hour feeding window, the put you’re going to beget three meals, either more protein or perchance more carbohydrates. I lift out greater with more protein on a day love that, but you’re reminding your body you’re no longer ravenous. You kick yourself out of ketosis. Your body’s changing into more atmosphere gracious and versatile. But as it pertains to most days that I’m fasting or I’m instructing folks to fast, after all thinking strategically about protein, making sure that every meal has got a, you realize, reckoning on whether or no longer it’s beef or pork or rooster or fish or whatever it is miles that you bask in, eggs, protein is the most satiating macronutrient.

We in point of fact are attempting to be aiming…I regularly disclose you’re attempting to be interested by 30 to 40 grams of protein in a meal at a minimum, due to that can again with satiety, starvation. Protein, you’re attempting to hit these sure values to make sure that your hitting muscle protein synthesis. Considered one of the most important issues that I’ve change into more mindful of as I’ve been getting more broken-down, I used to be factual talking to someone this morning and I acknowledged, “I judge that’s the brand new time frame I’m gonna exercise, more broken-down.” As I’m getting older, after all thinking strategically about muscle protein synthesis. And the system to head about doing that is getting sufficient protein into your food regimen so as that you would possibly perhaps perhaps also after all generate wholesome muscles. The more muscles you would possibly perhaps perhaps even beget, the greater glucose disposal you would possibly perhaps perhaps even beget, the more insulin aloof you are going to be, which is what you’re attempting to purpose for.

So, have to you’re placing meals collectively, interested by that form of protein… And in most cases, in some instances, if you happen to would possibly even beget a fraction of salmon, it already has heaps of wholesome corpulent, so that you don’t beget to add, you realize, love, half of of a avocado. You don’t beget to add five handfuls of nuts. You don’t beget to add, you realize, five pats of butter. After which, interested by primarily non-starchy vegetables as a precise initiating level. I eat a good deal of salad with my protein. That appears to work after all effectively. Being strategic about non-starchy vegetables. Your body wants the protein, corpulent, and fiber, after all severely vital. After which have to you’re interested by carbs, reckoning on what lifestyles stage you’re in, if you happen to’re breastfeeding, if you happen to proceed to, if you happen to’re pregnant, obviously, you’re attempting to be having your…you would possibly perhaps perhaps even beget more potential to tolerate more carbs.

Within the occasion you’re north of 45, if you happen to’re menopausal, your carb portions are going to be smaller. That is, each person knows we change into more and more insulin resistant as we was older. A part of that’s linked to much less muscles, which is why it’s so vital to utilize heaps of protein, to retain that muscles and recall weight. So, after all thinking strategically about your meals. And the question I regularly come by, “Smartly, lift out I ever eat sweet potato? Attain I eat root vegetables? Attain I eat grains?” Sure, I lift out, but I in general lift out it on days the put I’ve worked out a particular way. I’ve lifted weights, I’ve had a more intense day. Heaps of various days, I’m in general low carbish, and here is to no longer counsel that each person that’s listening have to be low-carb or ketogenic. That’s no longer what I’m announcing.

I judge we factual have to take into accout and strategic about our carbohydrates. We’re a culture that has oftentimes too powerful level of curiosity on carbohydrates, no longer sufficient on these wholesome fats and protein and fiber. And so, after all interested by carbs last, love, after all, after all interested by that carb fragment last. No longer that it’s no longer vital. Every of us has a various carb tolerance. Within the occasion you’re carrying a valid glucose music, you would possibly perhaps perhaps also music your response, or if you happen to’re the usage of a glucometer, you would possibly perhaps perhaps also music that response. Or some folks are very attuned to their bodies, and so that they’ll explain when perchance they’ve had too powerful carbohydrate, due to they’ll feel their blood sugar poke up, or perchance they arrive by sweaty, or they’ve that dip the put their blood sugar used to be up and it comes down and it crashes. So, a minute bit of experimentation to search out out what works finest for you and your body. After which factual being birth-minded. I regularly disclose to folks that the one part I’ve realized is to hunt recordsdata from the surprising, that perchance what worked for me two years previously doesn’t work for me now, and that’s entirely ok.

Katie: Yeah. Surely vital to attach in mind.

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You furthermore mght talked about, obviously, the variations with females after menopause. So, for any individual who is listening who’s in that piece of lifestyles, I’d wager there’s more leeway with fasting, but what lift out females beget to know in that piece?

Cynthia: Yeah. Here’s the piece in a girl’s lifestyles the put the general daily life issues that you roughly perchance didn’t after all misfortune about in your 20s and 30s all without prolong change into a discipline. And by this I imply you would possibly perhaps perhaps even beget to come by excessive-quality sleep. And here is largely one in all these absolutes. Within the occasion you can’t sleep by way of the night, please lift out no longer add in fasting, due to your body is already at a elevated wired deliver, so the way of living items are completely serious. So that methodology seven to eight hours of top quality of sleep a night. Which methodology that you’re placing off inflammatory foods. And I know I roughly feel responsible after I birth up talking about this, but I remind folks that perchance dairy served you till you were 45, and then you would possibly perhaps perhaps even beget to bewitch it due to your body doesn’t react effectively to it. All people knows with age that oftentimes, we beget much less of a propensity, much less potential to crash down lactose. And so, perchance it’s dairy, perchance it’s gluten, perchance it’s grains that don’t again you, or alcohol.

Alcohol is an expansive one. Girls in the sandwich generations, you realize, it turns into very powerful the mommy culture, folks drink wine at night, and in most cases one glass turns into two, turns into three. There’s no judgment, but I factual know that that’s piece of our culture. And so, in most cases folks will disclose, “Oh, I historical so that you would possibly perhaps drink. Now I will be succesful to’t. It disrupts my sleep, you realize, it suppresses melatonin, it spikes cortisol. I wake up at night, I sweat, it’s all these items.” So, placing off inflammatory foods. Managing stress. And here is no longer factual announcing, “Oh, I’m going to utilize a bubble bath and light a candle.” It is way more than that. Whether that’s meditation, whether or no longer or no longer it’s, love, the Apollo Neuro, which is, love, one in all my favourite devices. It in point of fact sits on my desk. Within the occasion you’re no longer familiar with that, it in point of fact does tapping. It used to be designed for folks that had PTSD. That’s the put the general research used to be accomplished, and now it’s, you realize, many folks are the usage of it factual so that you would possibly perhaps preserve themselves more in the parasympathetic, that roughly rest and repose facet of the brain.

So, after all actively, whether or no longer it’s meditation, yoga, connecting with nature, hugging your husband, your kids, your pet, you realize, hugging a lady friend, you realize, these kinds of issues are, no doubt change into more vital. And I judge, you realize, the last fragment is no longer over-exercising. And I judge, unfortunately, we’re also piece of that culture the put if a bit of bit of exercise is precise, you realize, five times as powerful, the cardio bunnies, that at 25, they also can elope miles and miles and miles, at 45, all without prolong, they inspect haggard, they’re exhausted. Valuable more vital to recall weights and to bask in out roughly a low-impact, whether or no longer it’s walking or Tai Chi or factual something that’s kinder to your body. So, menopausal females don’t beget the…as powerful hormonal fluctuation week to week, day after day, as they did once they were aloof cycling. And so, they deliver out come by a bit of bit of flexibility there, however the many, the way of living fragment turns into severely vital if they’re attempting to bask in out effectively, in addition to the macros. Because when someone says to me, “I don’t sleep effectively, I crave sugar consistently, I’m exhausted,” I’m love, “That is no longer the best time to add in intermittent fasting. That will factual be way too powerful to your body.”

Katie: Yeah, completely. And I judge that’s the confounding part that pertains to all of these, is we beget to figure out how to handle stress. Because stress, comparable to you acknowledged, is a time have to you mustn’t be fasting, if it’s factual going to add stress to your body. And each person knows that stress has reached epidemic proportions in our society, especially for females. And so, that’s a extremely vital key that can form a huge distinction between fasting and doing effectively, and fasting and after all stressing your body out. And so, I judge that’s, love, the form of abundant and vital initiating level for any one with here is, you realize, take care of these components, so as that have to you birth up fasting, or have to you add any daily life commerce, your body’s ready to adapt to it.

Because to me, the aim has regularly been, the tip of the day, to be metabolically adaptable, and that entails fasting. That entails being ready to rotate macronutrients, to handle whatever meals I lift out put in my body, but that doesn’t work in the presence of a good deal of stress. And that used to be a key for me. It took me a protracted time to figure out is that when your body, comparable to you acknowledged, is in that sympathetic anxious machine deliver, it factual isn’t going to repair and enhance. And the rest you add in is factual going to add additional stress. So, I know that’s a expansive matter to form out, but any factual pointers or advice for females in getting that piece under adjust, so as that they’ll fast more effectively?

Cynthia: Yeah. I imply, I’d disclose, I judge it after all begins with, you realize, we talk about this battle or flight, the sympathetic anxious machine. Most folk are sympathetic-dominant. They’re factual poke, poke, poke, poke, poke, poke, poke the general time. So, I judge factual giving yourself permission to order no, I judge that’s something that almost every lady after all struggles with, due to we again others. We’re consistently serving others selflessly. The glorious perfect thing about being a girl, but it would also additionally be a blessing and a curse. So, learning how to role boundaries is de facto severely vital. Surroundings apart, you realize, one meal a day or, you realize, about a times a week the put you’re sitting in silence or factual sitting outside, taking a inspect, no longer distracted by social media, no longer along with your cellular phone, no longer along with your iPad, no longer gazing TV, due to digestion in point of fact begins in our brains.

And so, I oftentimes love to remind folks that if we are attempting to digest our meals, we are attempting to detoxify, we prefer our bile to be, you realize, neatly regulated, we in point of fact lift out have to be in this parasympathetic deliver. So, going in a observe of attempting to be much less wired when we’re eating, you realize, no longer eating on the poke. I judge the blessing of COVID is that I judge it pressured many folks to slack down. What number of folks were, love, eating on the poke consistently, due to that used to be the best time, you realize, if you happen to’re sitting in your automobile, carpool, or doing errands and you’re eating in between errands that you’re doing. I judge it’s also after all vital factual to supply yourself permission to head to bed earlier. That is rarely any doubt something that has change into a roughly a comical story in my dwelling, due to I in point of fact beget kids. I’m in bed sooner than each person else. I factual beget roughly gotten to the level in my grownup lifestyles that I’m no longer served effectively by staying up till 11, 12 o’clock at night.

And so, I in point of fact beget a pretty non-negotiable bedtime. , I’m ceaselessly in bed by 9: 30, which makes each person snigger. I got my blue blockers on, I’ve got a silk sleep hide, you realize, I’m at center of the night. And I factual remind folks that that’s how I thrive. That’s after all how I lift out finest. And so, I judge folks after all beget to factual give themselves permission so that you would possibly perhaps order, “ what, I have to be a bit of bit selfish.” And for me, I beget to head to bed 30 minutes earlier. So, it would also birth up with factual announcing, “Three times a week, I’m going to sit down down in a relaxed deliver for one meal. I’m going to head to bed 30 minutes earlier. As an different of going out and operating five miles in the morning, I’m going to come by outside when the solar is rising.” And so, each person knows there are many physiologic advantages with that daylight publicity, without shades on, roughly, you realize, getting that circadian rhythm, you realize, regulated. We beget receptors in our retina that mitigate the publicity to light, roughly reminds our bodies it’s time to come by up and come by keen. And never very most life like, to no longer level out the food regimen D synthesis that you’ll come by with some daylight in your skin.

So, I judge it’s after all about that self-care fragment. And self-care oftentimes is no longer sharp, but it is miles rarely any doubt something that have to after all be prioritized, and oftentimes is no longer most standard sufficient till we, you realize, battle by way of a healthcare hiccup, or we beget a attempting or worrying time in our lives, and then folks will roughly reevaluate the put they’re. I judge that’s after all, after all vital.

Katie: Sizable pointers. I’ve been taking notes for the level to, notes for you guys listening, wellnessmama.fm. Your entire notes there, in addition to about a links to about a of the issues we’ve talked about. And as we come by conclude to the tip of our time, a pair various questions I enjoy to put a matter to are if there’s a ebook or heaps of books that beget had a profound impact in your lifestyles, and in that case, what they’re and why?

Cynthia: I judge one in all the ebook that truly started all of it, that truly modified the trajectory, no longer very most life like of my lifestyles, but also my occupation is a ebook by Robyn O’Brien called “The Unhealthy Truth.” And so, on the time, my kids were in traditional college, but I in point of fact beget a younger particular person with lifestyles-threatening meals allergy signs. And I used to be so exasperated after I read her ebook. No longer at her. I judge it has an unprecedented message. Alternatively it entirely modified my thought of nutrition, the processed meals commerce, lobbying efforts, and how that has impacted kids’s health and wellbeing. And so, that ebook after all modified the general pivot. Like, at that time, I used to be aloof very powerful, you realize, worn Western medications, trained in cardiology, you realize, toting the statin social gathering line.

After which I slowly began to query a lot. And for me, it used to be lifestyles-changing on every level. Because we had been living, I felt love, in misfortune for thus a few years due to of his meals allergy signs, it made us awkward when we would poke to household events or poke to a restaurant, we would roughly bask in our breath. And when an allergist says to you, “Take hang of an EpiPen and pray,” due to his allergy signs were so excessive. Surely no longer what folks are attempting to hear. So I’d disclose that’s completely a ebook that truly resonates and stays with me. There’s one more ebook called “Salt Sugar Paunchy” that used to be written by a Contemporary York Conditions creator, writer, after all talking about… It used to be an exposé of the processed meals commerce. And up till that level, I in point of fact had no belief about a bliss level, and how they deliver in these meals scientists to form, you realize, processed meals as hyper-luscious and addictive as doable. And I belief, “Smartly, my patients don’t stand an different if here is the roughly rubbish that is being peddled, and being very centered on profits over health.” I judge these are the 2 that truly got me changing my mind about what I used to be doing.

And no doubt, they’re books I counsel ceaselessly, due to I judge that they’ll after all be profoundly impactful. Other folks are after all attempting to come by a sense for what’s modified in our meals, you realize, what’s occurring with the processed meals commerce, these are two areas. I’d disclose one more ebook that has after all made an unlimited impact, which in all fairness newest. It’s called “Metabolical,” by Dr. Robert Lustig. I’ve read all of his various books, but it’s after all marrying the theorem that of what the processed meals commerce is doing to our health in such one way that, you realize, there’s absolute self perception. , he dives after all deep into the research. I regularly disclose the signal of a precise ebook, from my perspective, is what number of pages I in point of fact beget grew to change into over and created highlighter. And so, “Metabolical” would possibly also very effectively be a more newest read that is rarely any doubt factual galvanizing my opinions, and validates a good deal of what I’ve been announcing. It’s factual after all glorious to beget one more one that’s so deeply steeped in the research, and has been a researcher for, love, 40 years. So, one more doctor that’s accessible combating the precise battle.

Katie: All such huge solutions. Those shall be linked in the level to notes as effectively. And lastly, any parting advice, and likewise the put folks can gain you to preserve learning from you?

Cynthia: Yeah. So, parting advice. , be style to yourself. , there’s a good deal of issues that Katie and I talked about at present, and I remind, love, slack and valid wins. , no person’s gazing so that you can hearken to the podcast and then are attempting to form 50 changes all straight away. I’d rather you lift out one efficiently and then peel attend one more layer. I regularly exercise the analogy to an onion. Be style to yourself, form one commerce at a time. , little changes add up to enormous, enormous impact. That’s potentially the put I’d birth up. But if you happen to’re purchasing for me, www.cynthiathurlow.com. There are links to all my social media. I’m active on Instagram, YouTube, Twitter, LinkedIn, Facebook as effectively. And I enjoy connecting with folks. I even beget a podcast called “Day after day Wellness,” the put I in point of fact beget the potential to connect with after all exceptional folks in the health and wellness dwelling as effectively.

Katie: Salubrious. All these links shall be there as effectively. And Cynthia, thanks so powerful to your time at present. Here’s exceptional and the form of extremely vital matter, and so grateful for sources, and for you spreading the be conscious of all of these vital messages linked to fasting.

Cynthia: Thanks. Most standard our dialog.

Katie: And thanks as regularly to you guys for listening and sharing your most abundant sources, your time, your energy, and consideration with us at present. We’re so grateful that you did, and I am hoping that you are going to be half of me again on the next episode of the “Wellness Mama” podcast.

Within the occasion you’re taking half in these interviews, would you please utilize two minutes to leave a rating or review on iTunes for me? Doing this helps more folks to search out the podcast, that methodology even more moms and families would possibly utilize pleasure in the tips. I in point of fact adore your time, and thanks as regularly for listening.

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